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Interview: Laurence Rees
Acclaimed film maker Laurence Rees has specialised in writing and making programmes about the Second World War for more than fifteen years. His landmark series, 'Nazis: A Warning From History' and more recently Inside The Nazi State for UKTV History...
Creative Director of BBC History Laurence Rees has specialised in writing and making programmes about the Second World War for more than fifteen years. In particular, his landmark series, 'Nazis: A Warning From History' won him a myriad of awards throughout the globe, with the Times of London describing him as 'Britain's most distinguished producer of historical documentaries'. In July 2005 he received an Honorary Doctorate from the University of Sheffield for services to television and history and now, as his latest series 'Inside The Nazi State' premieres on UKTV History, we talked to the man who has probably met more ex-Nazis than anyone else alive today and asked him his motivations for making this documentary.
Laurence has been involved in a whole range of programmes about other historical topics, such as Alexander The Great and Conquistadors, but it is the events of the Second World War that have particularly captured his fascination. When asked why this is the case, Laurence is very clear; "the most important decisions you make in life are emotional. I can intellectualise why I'm interested in this but ultimately I am emotionally drawn to this period in history."
For Laurence, he is astonished that everyone isn't as interested in this topic as he is for this is a period that shaped the way the world is how it is at present. "When you start looking at Germany," he remarks, "you've got a cultured nation at the heart of Europe that goes on to commit, in the lifetime of people I've met, some of the worst crimes in the history of the world. Why isn't that important and interesting?"
Certainly as a culture we do share with Laurence a great interest in the Second World War, and particularly understanding Nazi ideology. Is there not a risk then, that given the amount of broadcasting there seems to be on this topic, that this might create for some people a negative impression of Germany? Indeed there was a recent report in the some of the national papers claiming this to be the case, but Laurence is keen to explode this myth that this is the only topic covered by historical documentaries, revealing that in 2004 only 11 percent of history programmes transmitted on the BBC were actually about The Second World War and the Nazis.
However, Laurence also argues forcibly that there is still great need for education in this topic, based up on findings made when the BBC conducted a poll just before his series 'Auschwitz: Nazis and the Final Solution' was shown on the BBC in 2004. "We discovered that nearly 50 percent of the general population in this country didn't know what the word 'Auschwitz' meant and that percentage increased the lower the age, resulting in 65% of women under 35 not knowing what the word meant." Clearly then the importance of Laurence's documentaries as educational tools cannot be underestimated; several of his series are now used as major teaching aides in many schools and universities.
But what of these so-called revisionist historians, such as David Irving, who can spend decades studying this period in history and come up with outlandish claims that the Holocaust didn't happen? At this question a look of sad despair crosses Laurence's features. "You simply cannot account for this," he sighs. "You really can't. It's like the Flat Earth Society." Some people just cannot accept the facts that are staring them in the face.
Talking of denial, Laurence remarks that his interviews with these former Nazis do reveal a profound level of denial in their attitudes; many claimed that in the beginning Hitler was this wonderful leader and fantastic figure of hope but 'something happened' midway through the Second World War that changed everything for the worse. However, because we know that Hitler was supporting all these horrific ideologies from the very start, Laurence concludes that the Germans who supported the Nazi party are in such state of denial because if they were to admit that they had been fooled, they would have to come to terms with the possibility that they had actually supported the atrocities conducted by Hitler in the name of the German people.
On the surface it is easy to see how a nation could have been fooled. The people Laurence interviewed often remarked that they saw within Nazism so many 'positive' elements, such as regeneration of Germany, a reduction in unemployment and an overall pride in their country, all emanating from this extraordinary charismatic individual leading them on - after the terrible years of the depression following the defeat in The First World War, the message of the Nazi Party finally gave Germans hope. For Laurence, this is one of the key elements in understanding how the Nazis gained power.
Another factor that is important to Laurence is that there is now a generation growing up who see the events of The Second World War as what he calls "another piece of history". "How many people are really curious, anxious and upset," he wonders, "about Genghis Kahn's undoubted genocide in Persia in the Thirteenth Century? It was a terrible crime but you don't find people going on about it now!" He has indeed raised a valid point: is interest in history entirely contingent on the proximity of the event to those studying it?
One thing is abundantly clear however. Because every one of the ex-Nazis he interviewed is now dead, he feels it is his duty, more than ever before, to preserve this recorded testimony of those people trying to come to terms with what happened in their own country under Hitler's rule. True enough, it's more difficult to track down the surviving members of the Nazi Party who are willing to talk than it is those who survived persecution, so these testimonies are incredibly valuable pieces of primary historical evidence. With this previously unseen footage used for 'Inside The Nazi Mind', he sincerely hopes that it will reach a different audience from his other series on the subject, as well as revealing better than ever before, the way these people have tried to deal with the extreme things that happened around them during the war.
Laurence has been involved in a whole range of programmes about other historical topics, such as Alexander The Great and Conquistadors, but it is the events of the Second World War that have particularly captured his fascination. When asked why this is the case, Laurence is very clear; "the most important decisions you make in life are emotional. I can intellectualise why I'm interested in this but ultimately I am emotionally drawn to this period in history."
For Laurence, he is astonished that everyone isn't as interested in this topic as he is for this is a period that shaped the way the world is how it is at present. "When you start looking at Germany," he remarks, "you've got a cultured nation at the heart of Europe that goes on to commit, in the lifetime of people I've met, some of the worst crimes in the history of the world. Why isn't that important and interesting?"
Certainly as a culture we do share with Laurence a great interest in the Second World War, and particularly understanding Nazi ideology. Is there not a risk then, that given the amount of broadcasting there seems to be on this topic, that this might create for some people a negative impression of Germany? Indeed there was a recent report in the some of the national papers claiming this to be the case, but Laurence is keen to explode this myth that this is the only topic covered by historical documentaries, revealing that in 2004 only 11 percent of history programmes transmitted on the BBC were actually about The Second World War and the Nazis.
However, Laurence also argues forcibly that there is still great need for education in this topic, based up on findings made when the BBC conducted a poll just before his series 'Auschwitz: Nazis and the Final Solution' was shown on the BBC in 2004. "We discovered that nearly 50 percent of the general population in this country didn't know what the word 'Auschwitz' meant and that percentage increased the lower the age, resulting in 65% of women under 35 not knowing what the word meant." Clearly then the importance of Laurence's documentaries as educational tools cannot be underestimated; several of his series are now used as major teaching aides in many schools and universities.
But what of these so-called revisionist historians, such as David Irving, who can spend decades studying this period in history and come up with outlandish claims that the Holocaust didn't happen? At this question a look of sad despair crosses Laurence's features. "You simply cannot account for this," he sighs. "You really can't. It's like the Flat Earth Society." Some people just cannot accept the facts that are staring them in the face.
Talking of denial, Laurence remarks that his interviews with these former Nazis do reveal a profound level of denial in their attitudes; many claimed that in the beginning Hitler was this wonderful leader and fantastic figure of hope but 'something happened' midway through the Second World War that changed everything for the worse. However, because we know that Hitler was supporting all these horrific ideologies from the very start, Laurence concludes that the Germans who supported the Nazi party are in such state of denial because if they were to admit that they had been fooled, they would have to come to terms with the possibility that they had actually supported the atrocities conducted by Hitler in the name of the German people.
On the surface it is easy to see how a nation could have been fooled. The people Laurence interviewed often remarked that they saw within Nazism so many 'positive' elements, such as regeneration of Germany, a reduction in unemployment and an overall pride in their country, all emanating from this extraordinary charismatic individual leading them on - after the terrible years of the depression following the defeat in The First World War, the message of the Nazi Party finally gave Germans hope. For Laurence, this is one of the key elements in understanding how the Nazis gained power.
Another factor that is important to Laurence is that there is now a generation growing up who see the events of The Second World War as what he calls "another piece of history". "How many people are really curious, anxious and upset," he wonders, "about Genghis Kahn's undoubted genocide in Persia in the Thirteenth Century? It was a terrible crime but you don't find people going on about it now!" He has indeed raised a valid point: is interest in history entirely contingent on the proximity of the event to those studying it?
One thing is abundantly clear however. Because every one of the ex-Nazis he interviewed is now dead, he feels it is his duty, more than ever before, to preserve this recorded testimony of those people trying to come to terms with what happened in their own country under Hitler's rule. True enough, it's more difficult to track down the surviving members of the Nazi Party who are willing to talk than it is those who survived persecution, so these testimonies are incredibly valuable pieces of primary historical evidence. With this previously unseen footage used for 'Inside The Nazi Mind', he sincerely hopes that it will reach a different audience from his other series on the subject, as well as revealing better than ever before, the way these people have tried to deal with the extreme things that happened around them during the war.
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