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Jumping on the knify part of this thread, i do get frustrated when i see how much money gets spent on 'pretty' knives that are of low quality and are quite expensive. I would say that the Henckels option was a good one. Another option I would recommend is Giesser. I was involved in testing these for Waitrose some years ago and Waitrose have used them on their meat and fish counters ever since, they are brilliant knives, they cut well, hold their edges well, the handle is very grippy and they're not as expensive as most other knives of the same quality - they normally sell for between £3 and £20 each and if you google 'giesser knives' you will find several companies selling them. If you want to find them locally their main importer is on this link [link]

Hope that helps someone make a good knife selection backed up by the reasearch done by a national company who spend '000s on knives

Hi Gastrosurf

Thanks again for your response..i only just noticed you did tell me before whats best to use..sorry..i was paying attention honest..must have just got over excited lol.

I went shopping again today and steadily building up my kitchen equipment. Still not got the house to put it in yet..but i will look in the new year and hopefully the market will be real prices.

see you again

Hi Sommersunshine

If you want to maintain a really glossy surface without scratching, I recommend the green fibre pads that they sell in the supermarkets. Also, Prestige do a stainless steel liquid cleaner - larger ASDAs usually keep it - it last a long time as you only need a tiny amount each time, and it is very good at removing stains or discoloration. You can also use bicarb with lemon juice, but I find the Prestige SS cleaner is better.

Nice to hear from you again.

gastrosurf

Hello again hope your well.

Just thought i would let you know that if finally got my saucepans well yesterday infact, they are going to be a xmas present off my parents. I went for the ones i liked originally as i really did like the glass lids..the Circulon Steel Elite from House of Fraser a box set of 5 items (which was 3 sized saucepans, french skillet and steamer all for £99 in their sale. Today i went and purchased the milk pan myself and I also went onto M&S to get some stainless steel and nylon utensils which they were doing for 3 items @ the price of 2.

Any advice on cleaning of the steel as its shiny on the outside and coated inside. Pans we have at home get the brillo pad or scouring pads on them but the are a dull metal of some nature!!...and i want to look after mine.

Hi Gastrosurf

Again the information you have provided is of great help and i will take all on board.

Hi Sommersunshine

Just a few thoughts on your most recent post:-

Most pans these days are made to a standard size, and so swapping the lids around is easy enough - I prefer glass lids because it's much easier to adjust the heat to the right temperature when the lid is left on.

Lids without any vent at all, which work to keep the heat and steam in, are usually made for steamers or slow cookers.

A well fitting lid with no vent at all will bounce up and down as soon as the contents of the pot gets to a high simmer - and be more likely to boil over.

One of the great advantages of Hard Anodised pans is that they are so much easier to wash up than other types. But they can get marked on the outside, and the exterior anodising is not usually as durable as the inner coating. However, leaving the pan to soak in soapy water after use for 10 minutes or so, and using a HA cleaner every now and then, should keep them looking good. In hard water areas they sometimes get a white'ish watermark, but the HA cleaner (or even a wipe with a little vinegar) should remove any build up.

Salt should be added when the water is near boiling, so that it doesn't float to the bottom of the pan, which can lead to marking or pitting.

Stainless Steel pans can be a little harder to clean, but SS is extremely durable and you will have to work very hard with an aggressive SS pot scourer to mark SS. It also has "self-healing" properties if scratched - more info on that here:-

[link]

Prestige do a specialist SS cleaning fluid, and it's great for removing stains and discolouring.

I use those fibrous green (non-metallic) pot scourers on the outside of my SS pans and a fairly aggressive SS wire pot scourer on the inside - which works fine. On HA I use the green fibrous ones all over. But imo, soaking prior to washing is the best way to clean and maintain a pan.

I love HA pans because they are so easy to wash-up, but really, SS and copper with an inner thermal layer of aluminium makes for the ultimate pan.

Whenever you see some of the world's top French chefs working in their kitchens, you will often catch a glimpse of their copper clad pans hanging up in the background - but then they do have Kitchen Porters to keep the copper gleaming!

Just had my marko mail arrive, and they have a five piece Circulon 2 set of pans for £59.99 + vat. (4 saucepans and a skillet).

You will need a makro card though - or shop with someone who has a card.

Hi Sommersunshine,

The Circulon 2 ones are hard anodised on both the inside and the out, so after over a years worth of use, they still look as good as new!

I've found them online, but the set isn't as big as the one they have in Costco.

[link]

Hopefully this will help, and good luck with the trip there!

Hi JanineL

Thank you for your advice. Unfortunately i have still to make my mind up on which of the Circulon range to go for...i really like the glass lid fitted ones as i have a saucepan that has the same kind of lid that allows no steam to escape but its not made of glass however its been brilliant..however the drawback on the circulon glass lid one is that its the Stainless Steel pan and i wanted the Hard Anodized ones for the durability and dark outside. I feel with time the stainless steel one when cleaning the outside will just look all scratched...i maybe wrong...sometimes things overflow and a simple wipe is not sufficient so a more abrasive cleaner/scouring pad is needed. How do your on the outside still look? As i know you mentioned they are easy to clean but im assuming you were on about the inside which is of dark material anyway. Lol i wish they just did both sets with the same lid option choice!

Its weird you mentioned Costco as my mom & sister went only on Friday gone but i did not know they sold that type of item. Following your advice i have just looked on their site but you cant really purchase off it, so apart from it showing they sold saucepans i was unable to view what they had to offer. I guess when i get some time i will have to try and get over to their Bham branch.

Sorry to jump on the thread, as it's not officially about pans, but I saw that Circulon 2 pans were mentioned & I do recommend them.

I bought a large stock pot (sorry, I don't know the exact size!), a 35cm saucepan, a 25cm saucepan, a saute pan (all of these come with glass lids) and three frying pans (40cm, 30cm & 20cm) from Costco for £179 for the set.

These are superb, and are so easy to clean. They do have a coating on the handle & are oven safe to 180 degrees. The only drawback is that the lids aren't ovensafe, but to be honest, for the quality of the pans, using some foil when you need to cover the pans isn't too much of a hardship.

I also own some silicon bakeware, and don't grease mine, but only use it occassionally. I'd rather use my Analon bakeware, which is in the same league as the Circulon range in my opinion, absolutely brilliant & so easy to clean!!

Hopefully this helps a bit, but if you can get to a Costco (or know someone that'll go for you) I'd recommend the pans!!

Hi Sommersunshine

We are in a 'buyer's market' at the moment, so s/he who bides their time is best placed for a bargain - and boy oh boy, does that apply to property right now!

I think the best advice at the moment is: "walk don't run!" ... whatever you are in the market for!

All the best.

Hi Gastrosurf

Thanks for the further tips. I still not decided and people are telling me to just wait! Have not been shopping again since Monday but have been for clothes..oh well

Hi Sommersunshine

Not sure if this will help with your dilemma because I know what you mean about the look and feel of a pan, but if a pan is hard anodised it will almost certainly have an aluminium alloy body which will tend to be somewhat lighter than a steel pan.

When comparing like with like, the weight of a pan is usually a good indication of quality, but because aluminium alloy has superior thermal qualities to steel, even though the pan may be lighter, it will transfer heat more efficiently.

With regard to handles, if the pan has some kind of plastic/silicone sleeve or insert, such an addition usually limits the 'safe oven temperature' of the pan - Circulon usually quote gas oven 4 as a limit. Possibly not so relevant with saucepans, but with frying pans and sauté pans it can be a drawback.

BTW, for checking out prices I have found ebay to be pretty much unbeatable - I'm not suggesting that you buy from ebay, but for checking baseline prices I have found ebay to be better than google.

If it's any consolation, I often get into dilemmas when buying kitchen equipment and stand looking at the item for ages, sometimes picking it up and putting it back down again, then walking round the shop and coming back to it only to go through the same ritual again. TK Maxx is one of the worst places for such dilemmas because I think wow that's cheap and even though I have one at home already, or something very similar, I think it's too good to leave on the shelf! lol

posset and I have discussed the possibility of a cure many times, but it seems once you are addicted it is very hard to beat - if there was a website for Gadgets Anonymous it would probably be swamped in no time with similar addicts ... lol

Happy shopping!

Hi Gastrosurf

Ive been shopping again and stocking up on my bake-ware once again i was in Debenhams but i did stop by TK Maxx and grabbed a good sturdy quality muffin tray also which was my bargain of the day! However my eyes keep going to the saucepans as i also popped into House of Fraser on my lunch to see their stock to compare prices. As silly as it sounds i know the style of lid i want for the saucepans...its the lid (which goes deep inside the pan as opposed to just sitting on the outside edge) & handle on Circulon Steel Elite non stick, yet i prefer the body and weight of the Circulon Infinite lol so as you can see im a nutter for sure as its bugging me to the point i wont purchase till i have made up my mind and by then they will probably be discontinued

Anyway all your advice is of great help. I can see your passionate about the whole cook thing/products and nothing wrong with that..everyone has their own passions in life. I would imagine you have made quite a few savings over time with all your findings, so good on you. I on the other hand can stand holding something, looking about, and then after 20 mins plus still put it back lol as my mind is still not made up! What can i say im a woman...a very fussy one at that...and i know you know theres nothing wrong with that Blimey just wait till i have to choose a house!

You're very welcome Sommersunshine ... I love chatting about pots, pans, kitchen equipment, etc, - some might say it's a sad hobby, but I don't mind that!

If you do go for a mix of non-stick and Stainless Steel pans, which personally I think is the best option, these SS copper clad with an aluminium thermal core are top dollar pans:-

[link]

Copper, aluminium, and SS in a tri-ply construction, is as good as it gets in the stainless steel ranges.

However, they won't work with induction hobs - just to mention, in case you were thinking of going down that route.

All the best.

Hi Gstrosurf

Just a quick one to say many thanks for all you advice i will look into all and let you know what happens.

Hi Sommersunshine

I like the look of these - but I haven't tried thermolon - I wonder if anyone else has?

The frying pans were used on Hells Kitchen - Barry McGuigan burnt his hand on one!

I think hard anodised pans are brilliant - although it's useful to also have a couple of stainless pans.


[link]

TK Maxx have had some very good deals on Beka pans - MPW again - (they are German and excellent), and also Stellar - laminated James Martin pans, which are very good.

Hi Gastrosurf...

What can i say? You make a girls mind boggle! Thank you so much for your comments and advice. I have had a look at both site links and have kept them to refer back to. Bottom line is i am looking to purchase a house either before this year is out or early next and have just started to buy kitchen equipment. So any advice on anything is welcome. I purchased 3 items from Debenhams just Tuesday, a Anolon roast tin and 2 baking trays all of which came to £35 and that was in the sale! I wanted good quality stuff that wouldn't look to buckle etc..and hopefully these will fit the bill. However when i got home and was looking on the net i started to see them a lot cheaper only problem is though like you said with the knives i dont know if these cheaper ones are the exact same product or not...however they do on initial appearance look the same but without touching and feeling the quality/weight its difficult to tell.

The silicon utensils with metal insert i will look for.

I didn't think to use the grill rack! However you have lots of knowledge and advice so i would therefore think it safe to use the metal cake rack i do have also.

I have so many items i'm looking into at present that its like looking in the candy shop. Saucepans is also bugging me i love the look of the Le Creuset sets but now looking at the Circulon 2 cookware, as i purchased the frying pan of that set and was impressed with it....oh my minds all over the place.

So im gonna just shut up now before i bore you to tears.

Many thanks once again for your help and wisdom.

Hi Sommersunshine

I use cake racks in the oven for various things, and they have been fine.

But if you don't feel happy about using the cake-rack that you have, how about the rack from your grill pan, or, if you have one, the metal stand from your microwave?

I always buy silicon tools that have a metal insert - quite often it won't say on the pack, but if you try and bend them, you will feel the rigid inner structure.

As for range of knives in the kitchen, I think that is a very personal thing, as is the feel of a knife.

Buying knives like Henckels as seconds can be a bit daunting if you are unsure what to look for- also, if they are packed up in those rigid plastic packs, you can't really check them anyway. But, I have to say, that I have found that TK Maxx will change things if you are unhappy and the packaging has not been damaged and the item is in a 'as sold' condition, even if it's marked as a second. But you might want to check that with Customer Services at your local store before handing over any cash.

You can't check a knife fully in the shop anyway, and they don't identify specific faults, so I think you are on safe ground as far as the Sale of Goods Act goes.

A quick guide to checking knives:-

Find a picture of the knife on the net, and check that the construction is the same as the one you have purchased - some manufactures make cheap versions of their knives, and at first glance they look like a bargain, and it's easy to assume that they must be seconds which explains why they are cheap. Cheap versions of various brands often don't have a 'bolster' - so it's worth comparing with a knife that is full price on the net. Some of the more upmarket knives don't have bolsters at all anyway, such as Global, but then that is how the full range is made.

With the knife removed from all packaging, rest the tip of the knife on a board, and supporting the knife from underneath, look down the entire length of the handle and the blade, checking to ensure that the whole knife is straight - a common fault is that the blades run very slightly off at the point where the handle joins it. The blade itself should also be free from any slight distortions.

Check that the handle is fitted square to the blade - i.e. not slightly skewed. Check that the handle is tight and buts up tightly to the bolster.

Check the blade and other metal areas for fine cracks or uneven grinding.

Turn the knife on its side and the check the top of the blade (the blunt side) it should be straight, or show a smooth, even, profile. Slight defects here may not be a problem at all when using the knife.

A common fault is that a knife has been ground badly leaving a 'wave' or a 'hollow' in the profile of the cutting edge.

How much this is likely to affect the knife in use depends on how you use the knife.

If you use a chopping style, i.e. you lift the whole knife with each stroke, and then it probably won't affect your cutting.

But, if you use a guillotine style, i.e. if you leave the toe of the knife on the board and lift the back of the knife, as the style most chefs are trained in, then you are likely to find that veg with skins, or anything fibrous doesn't get cut right through.

To check the blade for this fault, you need a perfectly flat board, and starting with the tip of the knife resting on the board, lift the back of knife and then slowly lower it down, taking note of the light between that part of the blade edge that is in contact with the board as the knife come down - checking from the side of the knife that is in shadow is the way to do this.

If the blade has a wave or a hollow in the ground edge, then you will see two contact points either side of the "hollow" with light showing through at the point of the 'hollow'.

A practical test is to take some thin spring onion shoots, and see if the knife will chop them cleanly through at all point along the edge of the blade. Needless to say, you do need a dead flat board and a good knife action.

Most likely the blade can be reprofiled by re-grinding, but it does need doing by someone who understands how to handle metals that have been ice hardened, because if the metal is taken to a high temperature during grinding, it is possible to lose the benefit of the original hardening process.

However, by the time you have paid someone to regrind and resharpen, any saving at the point of purchase is probably going to be lost.

Don't let the above put you off, you can pick up some real bargains in TK Maxx - but giving them a close look re the above can help to make sure it really is a bargain.

A couple of links you may find interesting.


[link]
[link]

The best value I have seen lately on first quality knives, is makro - a set of Henckels for £99 + vat, or for single knives: paysan.co.uk

Hi Gastrosurf

Hmmm the only wire rack i have is what one would use for cooling the cakes on and i dont trust using that in the oven even though its metal for some reason. I suppose i could just place it directly in the oven as the tray is purely to stop spillage but my mixture was not thin or anywhere near the top for fear of it going everywhere. So looks like now i will try it without greasing and put it direct on the shelf and then another time with grease but on the tray/in oven directly...oh what a to do..but i guess its all about trial and error at times. Your comments about the silicon spatulas and spoons was interesting as i have felt them and now their floppiness put me off as i didn't feel they had much substance to them especially if something was slightly stuck in a a tin/pan/tray unlike the metal. I went to TK Maxx myself yesterday as i saw your comments to another person on here about knives and the chef at work mentioned to me a few wks ago that they had some good knives in that suited for all purposes and for a domestic kitchen he said one good knife is enough. Anyway i seen the Henckles knifes but they looked like seconds from the description of "second choice" so i ummed and arghhhed then didn't bother I think i may go back in then and have another look at the silicon utensils to give further consideration in the meantime.

Hi sommersunshine

Can I suggest putting the silicon tray onto a wire mesh grid, which might help with the sticking. A solid tray will affect heat circulation to some extent and the heat from the tray will also be absorbed by the silicon to some extent.

If you try a mesh grid, I would be interested to hear if it helps.

I might try them one day - TK Maxx have had some resonable quality ones at good prices.

To be honest though, I've not really had probs with things sticking in metal tins - I use springform cake tins, and I line them with baking paper (lidl's is very cheap) and that seems to work fine.

I use silicon spatulas and spoons when cooking, and I think they are the bee's knees - all from TK Maxx

Hi Gastrosurf

Thanks for your comments.

I did try my silicon cake pan out and i used it to make a banana sponge cake. The texture and taste was perfect. I know what you mean about the floppiness though so i put mine on a baking tray first as they suggest to avoid spillage. I didnt grease it as i wanted to see just how non stick it was however a small fraction of the cake stuck to the bottom. I guess the downside is you cant put a Knife at the bottom like you would on a lose base metal tin to do a clean sweep to ensure its free. I also had to use a rounded edge knife to loosen the cake from the sides but that was no big deal and came away easily. As i said the jury is still out on this for me so i will try another asap and use a little grease to see what happens. I do think temperatures and qualities of the silicon could play a major role in this. My pan cost £3.95 for Livsstil in Birmingham City Centre its a 8cm/20inch pan and i considered it a bargain so thought i would try it. I have a feeling i will probably stick with metal pans but who knows so watch this space Anyway just because somethings floppy does not mean its no good So come an join the club and purchase one and tell us what you think.

Hi Kamila

Thanks for your comments. I did sponge in the silicon cake pan and it turned out well and tasted good. As it said non stick i decided i would try it without greasing the pan. I did find i had to get a rounded edge Knife to loosen it from the sides and then tap the bottom to get the cake out. Only one small part was stuck to the base and pulled away. I will try it again this week and will try using a little grease. I guess the heat of peoples ovens can also play a part in this but who knows As i said to another person who posted comments i think i may prefer using metal pans but the jury is still out on this one.

I haven't gone silicon myself - mainly because I've always been put off by the floppiness of the trays - but from what I have seen and heard, I gather some people use a vegetable oil spray on the moulds prior to adding the ingredients, even though the manufactures always seem to say no additional greasing/oiling is necessary.

Perhaps it depends on what the ingredients are?

I have got silicone bread mold. The instruction said that you should grease it the first time you use it. So I did. Washed it in dishwasher and forgot to grease it and the bread didn't stick so now I don't bother with greasing it.

MaggieW - Thank you for sharing your comments. If you are saying yours stick then maybe the answer is to lightly grease the silicon first. I think we are in for trial and error on this material for now.