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Could not have put it better myself, Rosti.

This thread started as to what is or isn't vegetarian, as opposed to Piscatarian, Carnivorism, and non red meat eaters ( who do eat poultry )

Not about how this affects our carbon footprints, or how to save the world.

It is about personal preference on what we eat and how people should be allowed to eat as they wish, a recipe not to be defined as vegetarian when it isn't, and Vetetarians not be conned into eating a meal in a restaurant that is "vegetable" but not vegetarian.

I'm more confused than ever about this whole topic.

I just read this: [link]

I think the whole point is getting bogged down in so many issues to become almost irrelevant.

I think I can help here. There are 5 biological kingdoms - animal, plant, fungi, protozoa and bacteria. Yeasts belong to the fungi group, therefore it's fine for vegetarians to eat it.

Gosh, I never realised the concept of "vegentarianism" was so confusing! Now I'm starting to actually see the problem!

George Orwell wrote a fabulous book on the feelings of vegetables! Yes, they too are living beings, people!

I must say after reading this thread I too am totally confused. Too many options, too many beliefs for others to make sense of - IMHO.

sorry, the first paragraph of my post should read 'some people that describe themselves as vegetarians dont worry about avoiding these things' (animal rennet and isingglass)

TVFoodie - in my opinion yes it is a silly question. If I don't worry about eating eggs I am hardly likley to worry about eating yeast which I personally feel is taking things to a ridiculous level. I suppose you are going to tell me next that vegetables have feelings too.

Vitman B5 or Pantothenic acid - is found in nearly every food in small quantities with high amounts in whole grain cereals, legumes, eggs, meat, and royal jelly and is not "derived from animals." But to answer your question, if as a supplement it was derived from animals, no it would not be considered vegetarian. I don't even know if you can buy it as a supplement on its own as deficiency is so rare. If you can, however, and it came in a gelatine capsule then it would not be classed as vegetarian.

Veggie mince - as in TVP (textured vegetable protein) of any variety - there are many to choose from.

the general definition of a vegetarian is someone that eats no slaughter products or byproducts, whether it be meat or fish, this means also avoiding things like cheese made with animal rennet, and alcohols that use isingglass (sp) although some vegetarians dont worry about avoiding these things.

so whilst a few vegetarians may choose not to eat yeast, it all depends on whether you perceive it as being an animal or not.

personally, i do eat yeast, i dont see it as an animal, as it is a microorganism, in the same way that i dont worry about all the millions of bacteria that exist on the surface of our food, although, this might be an incredibly misguided view scientifically speaking!

i agree that vegetarian cooking may seem like a minefield, but the best thing you can do is to ask your guest what they do and dont eat, i'm sure most would appreciate the effort that you have gone to to take thier dietry needs into consideration.

if you dont want to ask your guests, and are not sure what they will and wont eat, IMHO its best to stick to the definition at the top of this post, that way you cant go too far wrong

Patti, could you expand on your "Veggie mince" described above?

Sorry, I was also going to add my favourite vegetarian recipes: pizza margherita and pasta primavera! Yum!

I also make a rosemary and feta foccacia that I could eat alone as a meal.

There's really lots of quite classic dishes out there that are vegetarian, at least in the way I think vegetarian.

Can I ask what may be a totally silly question: yeast is an animal so is this considered not suitable for vegetarians? What leavening is used in its place?

I cook frequently for vegetarians [of various persuasions] and reading this whole thing it seems more and more baffling.

Also vitamin B5 is animal derived, does this make it unacceptable also?

Can I submit a stuffed tomato recipe that I adore? Clean out a large tomato and fill with a stuffing made from couscous, crushed garlic, mint leaves, parsley, feta, pistachio, salt and pepper. Omit feta for vegan.

Bake at 180 degrees for 10 to 12 minutes. Devine!

Certainly! Spag bol made with veggie mince, mushroom and spinach lasagne - (have a lovely recipe that is really rich), leek and cheese souffle, mushroom stroganoff, vegetarian sushi, cauliflower broccoli and courgette cheese, root vegetable cheese n onion pot pie (delia), homity pie - very comforting dishes, quorn curry with loads of coconut milk and coriander with homemade nan bread, spaghetti with blue cheese rocket and toasted pine kernels, fave sarnie is mozzarella tomato rocket basil and toasted flaked almonds, asparagus egg and mushroom on brown toast, or spinach and egg on brown toast, eggy bread, mmmmmmmmmmmmm...hardley gourmet but...oh...sooo goood...veggie bangers and mash, mushroom suet pudding with truffle sauce (Gary Rhodes recipe - its yummy), vegetable nuggets made with sweet potato (Simon Rimmer), Thai noodle soup - hot and sour - lovely, potato pie with onion mustard rocket & sour cream, homemade pizza with lots jalapenos and olives and caper I use JO's recipe for the base, soups - watercress, leek and potato, mixed veg.

I hope there might be something among that lot to inspire you. Would be happy to share recipes if you'd like.

i tend to eat a lot of salads and antipasto type things in the spring and summer, its a lovely time to be a veggie when the spring and summer produce is coming into season!
in the autumn/winter, i eat a lot of one pot dishes, things like:
soup: spicy tomato chickpea and lentil; leek and potato; brocoli and blue cheese

stew: puy lentil stew with sundried tomatoes and leeks, spicy bean stew,

curry: chickpea curry, green lentil curry, chickpea and butternut squash curry, mixed veg curry

bakes: baked squash with onions, new potatoes, peppers, garlic and herbs etc
pasta bake, stuffed baked potatoes.

and frittata with whatever veg needs using up!


oddly enough, most of my cook book are not vegetarian, but i adapt the dishes to be done without meat, i'm going to buy jamies new book, as from the tv show i think that it will have lots of things that i can adapt.

PattiPan, could you share with us what your favourite dishes are?

This whole thread has re-inspired me along these lines - but I find myself "brain dead" dor ideas as the only things we seem to see on TV and in cookbooks are very meat-centric!

I look at my cookbooks, and except for some desserts, everything seems to have meat or meat products in them?!

Very interestng point Michael, and I have to admit, one I had not considered until you brought it up. Apparently Veganics is the term used for produce grown without using these sorts of fertilisers - but I don't imagine its a widely used way of farming.

Now I think about it, obviously bonemeal, blood, fish, feather and chicken fertilizers all come from slaughterhouses - a rather disagreeable source for a veggie. And I have read on the internet that the drugs pumped into the animals can be still present in the fertilizers which probably isn't a good thing. As you say, it all comes down to limits. My choice not to be a vegan is, truthfully, because I don't have the time or energy to be that committed. Until I start growing my own I guess I am stuck with everyone else, eating carnivorous veggies. To try and start sourcing veganic veg is taking it to the nth degree for me, really.

I am reading Carol Klein's Grow Your own Veg at the moment....but I'm always full of good intentions...lol...at least there are plenty of places round about selling good old fashioned horse poo for me to chuck on the garden though! And my compost bin will yeild some organic matter for me too in about 12 months.

I saw the Jamie O prog too and was very envious of his lovely garden - I did wonder if it had been nutured by someone else in time to look all gorgeous and bountiful for his series though...or am I just being really sceptical?lol There's no denying potatoes in a grow bag makes it easy.

personally, for me i am not fussed about using organic produce anyway, i seldom buy it, i do try to buy local, but not organic. i either peel or sometimes i use a natural veggie wash product, which gets (most of) the nasties off the surface of the fruit/veg.

i agree though, that for a strict vegetarian, this type of fertilizer may not be acceptable. i guess it all comes down to limits, and how far each individual chooses to carry thier vegetarian lifestyle.

if you were a very strict veggie, growing your own as much as possible would be a good way of avoiding this problem. even if you dont have much space in your garden, you can still grow some produce in pots, or as jamie o showed last week, you can grow new potatoes in just a bag of soil!

Just to bounce the thread back to the top of the list, I have a question. Many vegetarians would choose fresh organic produce. Ask an organic gardener what fertilizer to use and they may well recommend bonemeal and/or blood fish and bone. These hardly sound vegetarian friendly. Any views???

i believe i've tried a different parmesan alternative to the twineham grange, but i cant remember the name. i may be mistaken though.

hi donna, welcome to the board.
what else does the white pudding have in it?

I think the vegetarian alternative parmesan is Twineham Grange which is made in West Sussex. I have seen it in Sainsburys.

Ditto re: the recipe actually Mary from Australia - I meant to ask earlier. Would you mind? My veggie gravy sucks.

Pattipan, sorry to get your hopes up re the 'Parmesan' cheese. I cannot remember the brand and therefore their description of the product. My sis in law is vegetarian and I bought it for her. Having tasted it myself, I thought it was quite good as an alternative to Parmigiano Reggiano

Hi guys, I just joined today
On the subject of vegetarian black pudding, there is a 'white pudding' that doesn't have pigs blood. It tastes just as good. I'm not vegetarian but the idea of eating solidified blood makes me
And chickens have eggs inside them the way that women do..... They will fertilize inside the chicken if there is a male to help them! And if not they will come out anyway, just as a human womans does. Only difference is we only have one a month! Soooooooooooo........ I say- Enjoy those free range eggies

Hi Mary from Australia, could u please give me your recipe for veggie gravy, my son is a vegetarian & i would luv to make it for him!!!! THANK YOU!!!

LOL'S!!!

Sorry, Rosti, its one of my many flaws - I tend to take everything literally so when posset said Vegetarian Parmesan that is what I thought she/he meant - not an alternative or substitute. I got all excited for a mo...

I will try it though, and the Tesco one - I tend to shop at Asda or Morrisons as they are the closest, neither of which carry a Parmesan style cheese - that I have found anyway.