I have recently purchased a Neff U1524 double ovenand for the past 5 weeks it's driven me mad. The main fan oven using Circotherm only goes up to 200 degrees but according to Neff this is equivalent to 250 degrees in a conventional oven BUT using their conversion chart to dial down temperatures nothing cooks as quickly as time stated on recipe or packaging. I've had engineer out today who tested oven and said when it's on 160 degrees on dial the temperature in oven is 160 degrees. I said well that's wrong then as it should read 180ish according to Neff chart and he said he didn't know what I was talking about!!! No-one from Neff has replied to my calls. Can anyone help as I'm so fed up with this oven and it cost nearly £900.

Hi Lisaj1
I have just ordered a neff oven for my new kitchen - it hasnt been installed yet so I cant comment on its performance however its definitely too late for me to change my mind!

Although I cant comment on cooker performance; I am a customer service director and so can at least hopefully give you some pointers in that direction.....Did you buy the oven from a retail outlet? If so, were you told by the sales person that the circotherm was equivalent at 200 degrees to other ovens at 250? Have you asked to speak to a manager within their customer care department or put your complaint in writing to Neff? It is worthwhile mentioning the sales of goods act that states a product should be fit for the purpose it was sold for. I have just visited their website and lok at the spec for the oven you have (I wasnt able to copy and paste, sorry) but it basically said that the concept of the Circotherm is based around no preheating, it made no mention of working at a higher heat. It sounds as though maybe the product was mis-sold to you, in which case you have a very good case for a refund / exchange. SOrry I know this doesnt help too much on a practical level but hopefully gives you some leverage in getting a reply from Neff!

Hi Sarah,

Thanks for that, I spoke to Neff's pre-sales people before I bought it who explained how Circotherm works - or not in my case. The retailer I bought it from has said I need to pre-heat for 20 minutes but I bought this for it's energy saving properties so response was a bit ironic. Most people just seem to recommend ignoring Neff's conversion chart and turning oven up but as it only goes to 200 degrees I am limited. As you suggest it may be a matter for mentioning sale of goods act. It's a sham but Neff are off my radar for future purchases.

Well I am really sorry to hear that Lisaj1, I also think its disgraceful...you dont expect that kind of bad experience from a top dollar supplier like neff.

I would suggest you use an oven thermometer (they are not that expensive if you don't have one) to take some readings, e.g. of how long pre-heating takes, what the various temperatures are, and how stable when reached, and make some comparisons with the data given in the handbook.

If it seems the oven is definitely faulty, put your findings in a letter to them, and if it was me, I would insist on a replacement oven, or a refund, if that's what you would prefer.

Just a further thought - whatever is set on your control panel should be the temperature within your oven - so 160c on the dial should = 160c once the oven has time to heat up and level out (assuming an empty oven).

If the oven has energy saving properties, then it will have used less energy to reach those temperatures compared to other ovens.

If the oven works more efficiently than other ovens and cooks food more quickly, then the cooking times will be shorter.

So lets say you buy an oven ready meal that states that it needs to be cooked at 200c for 25 minutes, you would set and pre-heat your oven to 200c, and cook it for a shorter time, perhaps 20 minutes.

An easy way to do a practical test is to buy a good quality sponge mix and prepare and cook it exactly as the instructions, then see how well it rises, how evenly it cooks, etc. Keep your eye on it (through the glass) and see if any reduction in cooking time matches what is stated in the handbook.

I'm not suggesting your oven is OK, I'm just thinking about the point the engineer made.

As mentioned above, you can do a simple test yourself by getting an oven thermometer (about £5 from an ironmonger or cook-shop).

Obviously the pre-heat times will depend on what temperature you have set, i.e. 140c is going to be reached more quickly than 240c - which is the highest temperature on my oven - yours is probably higher.

If the oven is not reaching its maximum temperature, it might be leaking heat, possibly at a seal, or the thermostat might be faulty, or, the burner or element may be at fault. My first guess would be the thermostat.

When you are actually cooking something, things get a little more complicated, because as soon as you open your pre-heated oven and put cold food into it the temperature drops down. This drop in heat is then picked up by the thermostat and the heat source then opens up again (increases) until the temperature set on the oven control panel is reached, then the thermostat creates a cycle to keep the set temperature stable.

The bottom line is that whatever the problem they should sort it out for you.

So often nowadays, s/he that makes the most fuss, gets the best service.

Putting some solid facts in writing is usually the best way forward.

Good luck.

Hi Gastrosurf,

Not sure if you have Circotherm but on my model you can only set temperature to 200 degrees C max, this means I cannot cook say a ready meal which says cook at 220 for 25 minutes as I don't have that upper temperature. Circotherm is supposed to work on lower but equivalent temperatures to a fan oven, but mine isn't doing that. I had a second engineer who came but did same test as first engineer just putting a probe into oven for half an hour but he wouldn't actually stay and watch food cook (or not). I have now been advised to ask for a senior engineer to come with a probe that attaches to a laptop so a graph can be printed out but the point all the engineers seem to miss is that using the Circotherm conversion chart provided by Neff nothing cooks at the recipe/packaging timings. I know I should stick with this and keep complaining but I lead a busy life with kids, job etc and the time it takes hanging on the phone and explaining to half a dozen different people what the problem is and then being patronized but some customer liaison manager who giggles and says he dosen't really know what I'm talking about regarding Circotherm makes my blood boil.

At work I asked on our internal intranet system if anyone else has problems with Circotherm and everyone who came back to me regretted buying this type of oven but had just had to get used to things taking longer - baked potatoes seemed to be the worst offender!!!

Roll on summer so I can get the barbie out!!

Hi Lisa

I had a look at the Neff website this afternoon.

I have a lot of respect for German engineering and it may be that your oven is very good, but I think their claims need to be taken with a pinch of salt.

With the model you have they seem to have taken the concept of a fan assisted oven a step further than most. Your oven would perhaps be better described as 'fan driven' - imagine your Sunday joint being surrounded by half a dozen powerful hairdryers in a metal box with hot air being blasted at it from all directions.

By using this method of heating the food, they have been able to cut the usual pre-heat time right down.

But to say the food cooks at lower temperature is, in my view, misleading.

Food cooks in a convection oven by heating up from the outside in, and it may well be that the Neff oven does that more efficiently and more quickly that many other ovens, but if you lower the temperature of the food, it is bound to take longer to cook. The important issue is how long it takes the oven to raise the temperature of the food. Whereas the internal temperature of most ovens will drop when cold food is put in, it would seem likely that the Neff doesn’t suffer such a drop, and so a higher average temperature is maintained. i.e. it has a flatter temperature curve, particularly over shorter cooking periods: 30 minutes or thereabouts..

Presumably what they are saying is that because their oven has a much tighter form of temperature control, that the peak temperature is lower, i.e. it doesn't cycle up and down as an ordinary convection oven does, and the average temperature remains more constant than most ovens.

However, if you are following their instructions and the oven doesn't cook the food as it should, then the problem needs to be put in their lap. If the cooking instructions say 7, but their chart says 6, then it should come out just cooked.

Baking a sponge cake is a very good test of any oven. If the oven's temperature control system is inaccurate it will show up in the results.

For the money you have paid you should be getting top grade results.

As far as energy saving goes, I wonder how it compares to an ordinary electric oven, and to a gas oven? I doubt there is any saving over a gas oven.

I would send their customers services a strong letter, or fax, saying you want it replaced, or your money back.

Lisa

[link]

The graph on this link illustrates the the range of temperature curves that occur in relation to the type of food being cook.

If they send an engineer with a laptop (surely all their engineers have the necessary test equipment to do their job?) then maybe they can monitor the thermal curve while something is actually cooking in the oven.

Without food in the oven, all that monitoring will show is how quickly the oven temperature rises to the set level, and how well that level is maintained.

The ultimate test of course would be to monitor what happens to the temperature of the food itself through the cooking cycle, rather than the environment surrounding it. Personally, I would put my faith in the 'baking a sponge test'.

Are you dealing with Neff direct, or a dealer?

If you are dealing with Neff UK and getting the response you mention above, I would suggest you fax the Divisional Manager at their UK office.

Hope you get some joy soon.

Hi Gastrosurf,

Gosh thanks for your reply, you've obviously had a good hard look at this for me and the link was very impresive if slightly over my head!! Sorry.

I have actually made a sponge cake according to Neff's recipe book and it has proved to be the only thing that did actually cook anywhere near the suggested time and Neff seem to use this as the benchmark of whether an oven works or not - would be great if we just wanted to live off sponge cake.

I have decided to bite the bullet and call Neff again on Monday but need to gird my loins before going into battle again!! Thanks again.

Hi Lisa

Sorry if the link looked confusing - it was just the graph that I thought might help to explain the relationship between temperature curves and different foods, and give you some "ammunition" if the engineers brushed your concerns aside again.

It's good to know that your oven handled a sponge cake ok, but like you say, you can't live on sponge cake.

However, it may help to narrow down the cause of your problems.

Is it certain types of food that are problematic - perhaps frozen ready meals?

Or, is it only foods that need to cook at the top end of the temperature range - perhaps again, when frozen?

Presumably the engineer did check that the oven reaches the maximum temperature as given in the handbook? If an element is weak, maybe it struggles to achieve and hold the higher temperatures with things like frozen meals? It could be that such a fault doesn't show up unless the oven is put under load by having food in place.

200c is equivalent to gas mark 6, and 250c is 9+, which is a huge jump.

Have you tried roasting a chicken by starting off at high temeprature and then reducing the heat down, to see if you get nice crispy skin? Something like this:-

[link]


I also wonder if any oven trays or dishes that you are using are causing any kind of problem - do Neff supply or recommend anything that is different from the norm?

Can I make a suggestion (although you may have done this already) on the day of the engineers next visit, cook one of the problematic dishes as the Neff instructions, and as near as you can to the time the engineer is due to arrive. It's usually impossible to get any company to give you a precise time nowadays, but you could request that the engineer telephones you say an hour prior to arrival - stressing the fact that such a move should save the engineer time because they won't have to hang around so long.

If you can arrange things so that the engineer arrives in the final stages of cooking (or perhaps more correctly: 'nearly' but not quite cooking) that would be great, but even if that's not possible and the dish has cooled down, you will have some evidence of your complaint - be sure to pick something that will show up as uncooked.

Btw, I don't have a Neff oven - prior to reading your post I would have been very tempted by their marketing though. Some years ago I bought a free standing cooker that had a double oven, it was top of the range and quite expensive (but not Neff), but it never delivered what the handbook promised. We had the engineer out at least a dozen times.

These days I use an ordinary gas oven, which works well, and is relatively cheap to run.

Quite recently I purchased a Panasonic combination oven, which I am very pleased with. I use it mainly for convection cooking, although it can be programmed to include a microwave sequence within any one setting.

During the pre-heat stage it uses fan driven heat and also the halogen grill - but even then it does take about 5 minutes to reach something like 200c, the top end being 250c, which takes a little longer.

But it does deliver what it promises and cooks food very accurately and switches itself off at the end of the sequence, which is really useful if you are multi-tasking and tied up elsewhere - just a thought in case you get really brassed off with Neff and want a second (much cheaper) option for getting ready meals cooked quickly and easily.