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Does anyone think we could persuade UK TV (and other broadcasters) to stop adding unnecessary words to their logos, which are left on throughout programmes and which are distracting and annoying, thoroughly spoiling our viewing.[link]
[Frown]

For instance, I am really fed up with seeing the words "BIG NIGHT IN" plastered over my screen on UK Gold on a Saturday night. This is not needed; UK Gold do plenty of trailing of their programmes; they don't need to tell us PERMANENTLY while we are actually responding to and watching their output![link]
[Angry]

Also, the UK Channels with long names, which intrude a third or more across the screen in large white capitals.....and then add a long website address ....ALL THE TIME!!.......surely they can be persuaded to adopt a DISCREET UK logo with a small motif appropriate to the channel content. THEY SHOULD DROP THE WEBSITE ADDRESS COMPLETELY and give it out between programmes and during trailers and other advertising. Heaven forbid that UK Gold should start doing it! [link]
[Roll Eyes]

This "Grumpy Old Man" likes much of the UK content, but he often swithces off when the ouput is thoroughly ruined by what he calls " copying lesser channels of the American variety".

Aaaaaaaaaaaah....that's better!

I agree wholeheartedly, at the moment the screen is being obscured by this ridiculous "murder mystery sunday" graphic, which, because it seems that the idea is to SPOIL our viewing, sits right across the foreheads of the people we are trying to watch, it would hardly be more unobtrusive if they put flashing lights in the screen!! We do NOT want this to continue, we pay to watch the programmes WITHOUT being forced to have a continuous advert in front of the picture! kindly remove these unpleasant distracting and TOTALLY POINTLESS graphics immediately, thankyou

UK GOLD management: I have just switched off UK Gold Channel.

Why have you added the words COMEDY SUPERHEROES in capital letters a quarter of the way across the top of my screen, making your permanent disfigurement of the transmission now into FOUR LINES? Your channel is becoming unwatchable.

Advertisers please note!!

Repeat: Permanent disfigurement of the transmission. UNACCEPTABLE.

Hi there - this is a bit of a tricky one. On the one hand we appreciate that on-screen "clutter" can be distracting for some - on the other hand we feel want to try and get messages about the channel and channel events across as well.

We take the lead from research into how people view UKTV channels and it seems that, more often than not, people tend not to mind these messages (sometimes they don't even notice them). We'd always strive to get the balance right though but I do think that, by and large, UKTV's logos tend to be farily discreet compared to other non-terrestrial channels.

Thanks for the feedback though

cheers

DAVIDUKTV!!

Thank very much you for your response; was it to my posts here and on UK Documentary and Planet UK.....or to the emails I sent to "management" about a month ago? You just caught me before I was about to report another "travesty" which happens to have been on UK Style lastweek, but as the whole principle applies to all UK channels I'll bend a rule and do it here. Sorry "Gold" readers!

"More often than not people tend not to mind".......I've seen one posting by someone who doesn't notice, and one other who had a go at me but actually agrees basically with what I am saying. Where are the posts arguing with me and saying, "please keep all this extra clutter?" Several posts agree with me.

Really David, you don't need to put messages about the channel PERMANENTLY. There are 4 minute (or longer) programme breaks every 15 minutes for adverts and you can do all your promotion then. We accept these breaks (even if we don't like them!) on a commercial channel. Your logo (except for UK Documentary...too long and too big....why not grey it down slightly and call it UKDoc.....we would understand I promise).

Which brings me to these travesties last week:

UKTV
STYLE + 1
NEW! Extreme Makeover
Home Edition
3 Days to Go

David......FIVE LINES almost halfway across my screen and a third of the way down???? I cannot agree with you that that is discreet. It's almost like taking the Mickey.

UKTV
STYLE GARDENS
We love Alan Weekend

After 5 minutes we stop loving seeing that, never mind hour after hour after hour. That is not discreetly informing people. The viewer who loves Alan will already be watching. The viewer who doesn't can watch anyway and decide whether to continue.

Channel 5 started with a bright logo, dimmed it then ditched it.
BBC3 and BBC4 turn it off during films some dramas and concerts, as does ITV4 (and , I think More 4)
For a discreet logo with no ADDED clutter, look at Men and Motors Channel (if you can bear the content!).
Channels 1-4 don't do it (except, it seems to "humour children into thinking the kids' channels are "cool".)

These illustrate concern that the viewing experience should be unspoiled as far as possible.

Why not change all UK word logos into a genuine recognisable "icon" logos with minimal additions, in a pastel unobtrusive colour? (But don't make the same mistake as The Sci-Fi channel.....a super Saturn logo, now spoiled by the kind of things I have been going on about with UK TV.)


Once again, thanks for replying, David. Please put my suggestions to your broadcast controllers. For every one who takes the trouble to inform you, there may be dozens who just switch over, (and I am contemplating reducing my paid package, which will eliminate most UK TV channels).


p.s. Can you get "Sapphire and Steel" on to UK Gold for me?

There's only so much you can get away with where viewers don't get annoyed. If it's small, colourless & static then it's not really a problem. But when it animated onto screen, then it's a different kettle of fish. I have, for the most point, been avoiding UKTV primetime since they decided we must be so stupid that we need to be told what's up next by a stupid animating graphic which pops up on screen and grabs your attention in what is usually a crucial point in the show- ruining the mood. And now they've introduced a "Navigation Compass" which is even worse, incorporatng a video window, which is enough to make me give up on UKTV during primetime altogether (I still watch during the day when this isn't in use).

I know channels want to do this because they want viewers to watch, but quite simply, the best way to do this is with good promotion & programmes people want to watch. Look at UK Gold's schedule now compared to 6 or 7 years ago- it's awful. The same few shows repeated ad infinintum whereas other shows people want to see are left to rot in the vaults. And the block scheduling is just a total waste or airtime, especially when it's repeated again a few hours later. And the "Box Set" is just an insult- 4 episodes of a show at lunchtime, then the same 4 episodes repeated again in the evening. This airtime could be used to show other programmes which haven't seen the light of day in years.

The reason for the falling viewing figures is too many channels, not enough content and poor scheduling. To improve viewing figures, it's not big flashy in your face graphics which are needed (these are more likely to put viewers off). You need to slim down the UKTV network- close some of the superfluous channels, like Style Gardens & BrightIdeas, buy in more content and get a better schedule- no repeats in the same day (apart form maybe the soaps- I badly miss the lunchtime & mid-afternoon repeats of EastEnders- much better than blocks of My Family & Dinnerladies episodes, which are endlessly repeated anyway), more programmes and no "blocks". Oh, and ditch the "Navigation Compass".

Mmmmm. There's a thing. I haven't seen this "Navigation Compass" yet......Why?.........I HAVEN'T BEEN WATCHING! during the evening. Don't advertisers pay the highest fees at primetime? - and UKTV are losing viewers?

Hi there - just to clarify, when I spoke about viewer opinions, I wasn't referring to comments in the messageboards, but rather information gathered by our research dept.

I admit that it's unlikely anyone's going to feel moved enough to post a message in favour of these logos or argue their case - just like we wouldn't expect anyone to say that they really, really liked TV ads interrupting their viewing experience. We value any comments posted on the message boards but we also have to look at the bigger picture and research indicates that the vast majority of people don't have a problem with logos, credit squeezes etc.

James 2001 has, in passing, highlighted the problem which UKTV and similiar broadcasters face in that the marketplace is ever expanding, offering more and more choice. This is why we take every opportunity to communicate messages about our programming - and we're hardly alone.

In fact, we're one of the few major TV channels not to use a "Navigation Compass" until now - a lot of our competitors (including companies cited above as models of good practise) have been using these types of communication for a long time. It's also unfair to compare our situation to the likes of funded channels like the BBC and terrestial channels like Ch5 or terrestial extensions like ITV2 as they have a completely different footing in the marketplace.

I think the biggest issue is when there's an event with a long name and a countdown like Makeover on Style. In that kind of situation we have to take a step back and think - this is an important event for us - have we got more to gain in putting up that logo even though it's long, or do we have more to lose? Please be assured that these decisions are not taken lightly.

I realise I haven't answered each and every point in this discussion but hopefully I've got across at least some of our thinking behind these logos.

It's highly unlikely that UKTV will change it's behaviour to the extent that you'd wish but I will pass these comments on to the relevant people so that they're as informed as possible about viewer opinion.

cheers!

OK, a small post I added has got lost, so just to say that as long as UKTV are considering what appears on this forum, the forum is succeeding in its purpose. UKTV should always view viewers views thoughtfully (!!). Keep at'em David!

All I can say is UKTV research aren't doing their job properly if they think people like all these logos on screen, people don't the only people who do are the idiots who create them.

I have already stopped watching most of UKTV because of these logos, like I know many others have too.

When UK TV started off and there was only on channel, it was a great channel, with some very good programming, now that there are loads of UKTV channels, with very few decent programmes spread thinly out, no matter how much you try and annoy the viewer with these awful extra logos, they aren't going to watch, in fact because of this they like myself are less likely to watch, who wants to watch a channel where out viewing is spoilt.

UKTV are highly unlikely to change their views, then we viewers are highly unlikely to return to UKTV at all.

UKTV really do make me angry with the way they have contempt for their viewers.

I stopped watching Sci-Fi channel a few years back because of their annoying logos, even though Sci-Fi is my favourite genre, I have already reduced my UKTV viewing down to the odd programme here and there due to the way they like to alienate their viewers.

It's about time UKTV thought about their viewers for once, not annoy them the way they do.

Just because one person jumps off a cliff, doesn't make it right and everyone else should follow.

Sitcom Showdown had a bright "Brand New" logo spoiling the programme, there goes another programme on the banned list, I'm not watching this whilst that annoying logo is on, so will switch over, not many programmes left at all on UKTV to watch.

Ooooh, Cactus Roger how I agree with your clutter comments. How can UKtv possibly say that their viewer survey says that most don't mind. Who the hell did they ask? I bet it was a load of half blind Americans who would not know a decent programme if it slapped them around the face.
UKtv has never asked for my opinion, in fact who can put their hands up and say that they have been asked.
Come on UKtv this message board is your way of knowing what your viewers really think of you SIT UP & TAKE SERIOUS NOTE.

Ooooh, Cactus Roger how I agree with you clutter comments. How can UKtv possibly say that their viewer survey says that most don't mind. Who the hell did they ask? I bet it was a load of half blind Americans who would not know a decent programme if it slapped them around the face.
UKtv has never asked for my opinion, in fact who can put their hands up and say that they have been asked.
Come on UKtv this message board is your way of knowing what your viewers really think of you SIT UP & TAKE SERIOUS NOTE.

ANY writing on the screen while a program is on is simply disgusting. Logo's are bad enough but once it gets into advertising what is usually a collection of repeats; its pathetic. Especially when the actual advertisements between programs are ramming it down your throat again!!

I can say I have now not watched any of the UKTV channels prime time content for a month. That mosntrocity does indeed "direct" me- it directs me to a non-UKTV channel, one that doesn't show endless repeats of the same few shows and clogs up its screen with pop-ups. It's horrible, it makes the graphics used by the european channels look sane. I just refuse to watch a channel that treats its viewers like idiots by doing this. Instead, I am buying DVDs of my favoirte programmes and watching them instead- no on-screen logos and no pop up graphics.

Honestly, these things don't work. People use TV Guides & EPGs to find out what's on- if people don't want to watch the millionth repeat of blackadder, a pop up graphic is not going to change thier mind. Instead you need to be showing what the viewers want- not endless repeats of the same few shows (come on, the BBC Archives are full of gems that are rarely, if ever, repeated), accompaied with pop-up video windows ruining the programme, it's no wonder viewers like me are rapidly turning off.

If you want to get viewers improve your schedule & programme afferings, and drop you awful "Navigation Compass" (or, indeed, any other form fo pop up graphics, including the "Next" thing you were using beforehand).

I'd sack the research dept, it's obvious they are useless. NO one likes this graffiti on the screen, the research dept must have only asked the Muppet's who create this graffiti whether they like it or not, they certainly didn't ask the general public.

The biggest annoyance people have with digital channels is the logo and other graffiti.

Five learnt their lesson, and got rid.

I have yet to meet anyone who likes logos and graffiti on screen.

Come on UKTV get it into your thick skulls, we ALL hate logos, get rid, stop treating us like idiots, because that's what you are doing, and the utter contempt you have for the viewer is disgusting.

Also, by saying that "most channels" use this sort of promotion, I can name quite a number of channels that don't- the main terrestrials for a start (bar ITV, but even they're farily restrained in its use after a number of complaints. The BBC removed theirs completly for the same reason.). It's the programmes that get viewers, not on-screen graphics. It seems to me nearly all of the channels using these things are desperate- they are showing programmes people don't want to watch, either because they're poor quality (ITV2) or they've seen them a million times (UKTV Gold), and the marketing men hope that these graphics will encourage viewers to watch- they don't. If I don't want to watch "celebrity wife swap while in the big brother house", a fancy pop-up graphic, complete with pictures & video window isn't going to change anyone's mind. And people are more likely to avoid a channel if they thingk their programme is goign to be ruined by pop-up graphics. Quite simply, these graphics are a way of channels trying to get themselves out of holes they've dug themselves (by showing poor quality shows or endless repeats) but just end up digging the hole deeper, as they put even more viewers off.

The fact is, if you showed Fawlty Towers 2 or 3 times a year, people would be more eager to watch it, as it would be a while since the last showing, and if it was just once a week, as opposed to 2 or 3 episodes a night, 3+ nights a week, would get viewers watching even more. It's the spreading of programmes thinly across channels, endless repeats, block scheduling and limited programme choice that's killing your viewing figures, not competition from other channels. On-screen pop-ups will not fix this, they will just make even more viewers turn away.

"I'd sack the research dept, it's obvious they are useless. NO one likes this graffiti on the screen, the research dept must have only asked the Muppet's who create this graffiti whether they like it or not, they certainly didn't ask the general public."

Indeed. I've never been asked to take part in any of these surveys. In fact, I don't know anyone who has, from friends, family and extended contacts through the internet (including the thousands who post at Digitalspy). Just exactally who do they ask, and how big is the sample (I find it hard to beleive you can get a representitive view from a small sample of less than around 500 people).

This post is a direct "lift" from my recent comment on the UK Documentary forum.

There is an extended dialogue "raging" on the UKGold forum on this subject, so please (everyone who likes their programmes UN-spoiled by graphic intrusion) keep this one boiling so that DavidUKTV can keep telling the powers-that-be who fix UKTV policy, that their output will be IMPROVED and MORE POPULAR by really outperforming other lesser channels simply by abandoning ALL programme defacing detritus.

Dismissing the opinions of the people who have the sense to communicate, and "pressing on" would seem very reminiscent of the actions of most politicians who dismiss anything that does not fit their dogma of the time.....until forced to back down when it becomes clear they will lose votes, or even office, by not doing so.........then it is often too late. UKTV, the process has begun.....

I just wanted to add that in a "marketplace is ever expanding, offering more and more choice", then I will be choosing the channels with the least intrusive logos (or preferably none).

I cannot imagine any way in which filling the screen with graffiti could actually attract viewers, but rather only drive them away.

I understand the need to promote programming, but doing it in such a way that actually annoys and alienates viewers of the current programme it is advertised in is surely shooting one's self in the foot.

I find myself watching channels with excessive logos less and less. So, far from encouraging me to watch more of your channel, you are actually driving me away.

We all know the arguments so I'll keep this quick and simple. I almost never watch UKTV but I tuned in this weekend to check out The Mighty Boosh series one being shown back to back.

I don't like the basic onscreen logos anyway, I didn't like the unfunny "funny" announcer and after discovering that I was unable to disable the UKTV red dot which would reappear in the corner of the screen again and again I decided to switch off and catch it on DVD instead. I did not want to see the show for the first time while being annoyed every 15min by an intrusive onscreen logo.

So there we go. UKTV gained a viewer and then lost a viewer as I will not be returning until this is changed.

Hi Boosh fan - sorry to hear that you won't be returning to UKTV. Just to let you, if you're talking about the red button graphic in the top right corner that always appears 30 seconds before and after an ad break, you can always get rid of it by pressing "back-up". This applies to any red button graphic on any channel.

cheers

It's good that we have these message boards as I tried emailing UKTV about the HIGNFY repeats on UKTV People which they got part-way through certain seasons before dumping them and always missing out certain eps then repeating the whole lot. I'll come to that later though.

Today, it really shows what a load of old flannels channels will come out with, and the patronising responses that follow, about how viewers find onscreen logos useful.

That shows just how little of their own channel the broadcasters and its management actually watch.

The problem with research will be the questions they ask, and explains how they come up with the public's apparent loves of logos and other nonsense.

Is the question asked:
1. Do you like logos filling up your screen so you can't tell one character from another because they've got writing all over their face, or

2. Would you like more information about the programmes on our channels and forthcoming shows?

If they ask question 2 and people say yes, it gives them carte blanche to turn the UKTV channels into the godawful mess they are today.

And while you're at it, UKTV, when will you be upgrading to a 16:9 transmission suite? If I want to watch a repeat of something that was on BBC1 and is now on UKTV, I can edit out the ads, but I can't avoid the logos, the onscreen nexts (if you still do those - it's been months since I've watch BECAUSE of all this nonsense) and the fact it's a letterboxed 14:9 mess.

(Rant over for now, but I'll be back for more)